with regard to the accessibility of these papers to the
various officials in the State Department, I ought to add
this: Most of the telegrams coming into the State Department
would be mimeographed. Those mimeographed copies would be
circulated - one to the Secretary, one to the Under-Secretary,
one to each of the Assistant Secretaries, and one to each
of the departments concerned.
a trade matter, for instance, the papers would go to the
Assistant Secretaries for their information. One lot would
go to my office, another lot would go to the Division of
Trade Agreements, and so forth and so on.
I have seen it suggested in the papers - I think it was
suggested by Mr. Mundt of the Un-American Committee - that
four people only had official access to these documents.
I think I should say that the facts do not bear out that
statement; that these telegrams and these papers and these
memoranda, which I am describing to you, were circulated,
in most instances copies going to the Secretary's office,
to the Under-Secretary's office, to each of the Assistant
Secretaries' office, and to each Division concerned.
that the impression which some of the newspapers seem to
have gathered from Mr. Mundt's statement, that only four
people had access to these papers, namely Mr. Hiss, Mr.
Sayre, and the two secretaries, Miss Lincoln and Miss Newcomb
- is not borne out by the facts; and, again, I want to suggest
that all papers having to do with trade were readily accessible
or available to the assistants in the Division of Trade
Agreements - it might be Wadleigh or others - and the accessibility
was not confined to these four men mentioned.
these German papers, of which I speak, were trade papers,
and I think it is important and significant to distinguish
in these Baltimore and Pumpkin documents between documents
relating to trade and those not relating to trade.
first group I mentioned were telegrams, few of which related
to trade. I am not sure that any did.
second group I mentioned are all trade, and these were available
in the Division of Trade Agreement to anybody who was working
in that subject.
Mr. Sayre, in looking through the so-called Pumpkin Papers
- in other words, the enlargements of the microfilm - I
believe you told us yesterday, in the office, that you discovered
four documents that had gone through your office, and had
your office stamp on them, is that right?
And you found nothing on any of the other papers which indicated
that they had passed through your office?
No, in none except these three or four, which you mention
- none of them bear the office stamp of "Mr. Sayre,
Assistant Secretary of State."
It is possible that those particular memoranda [notes in
Alger Hiss's handwriting] which you referred to might have
been digested by Mr. Hiss after reading the original, so
that he could tell me in a few words what the memorandum
contained. Not that he would show me or pass to me those
specific memoranda, but possibly that he would digest it
for his own purposes, so that in handing me a stack of telegrams
he might just glance at his little digest and say, "Well,
this telegram is about so-and-so; I don't think you have
to read that," "This telegram is about so-and-so;
perhaps you better get after that," and so on and so
I have no recollection of those specific papers, but I merely
tell you what our practice was for what it may be worth.
I would like to refer to one, specifically, and I will show
you the copy of this here. It refers to what I believe to
be military information. Now, you were not interested in
I was not. That is, those memoranda which you showed me
yesterday did not relate to trade matters.
Consequently, is there any explanation as to why Mr.
Hiss - and I am speaking to you as his superior - is
there any explanation in the conduct of your office as to
why Mr. Hiss could write this memorandum and I am referring
to this one, with reference to the French airplane?
Yes. Only such possible explanation as I have already given,
that here was this stack of cables, and it is possible that
he wrote this memorandum digesting a cable which had come
in, which he would feel it unnecessary for me to read in
detail, and he would tell me in a few words what it was
about, refreshing his mind to do so with this memorandum.
I don't remember this specific memorandum, but I am giving
this as a possible explanation.
He would know that you were not interested in military information?
And therefore need not go through a long telegram.
But also, would it follow that, knowing that you were not
interested in military information, it would not be necessary
to make such a long digest - referring to the French airplane
matter, and the military point of view in Indo-China?
Of course, when you say I was not interested - I had to
be interested in everything that pertained to developments
going along, because when it came to the matters I was handling
- economic and trade matters - you had to know about the
military matters in order to make wise decisions; so that
although it wasn't in my immediate field, it was nevertheless
information which I ought to know about, so that there is
that possible explanation.
WITNESS: If I may just complete the statement I was making
about these documents which were found. Another set of these
Baltimore Documents concerns the trade situation in Manchuoko,
again a trade matter. And that would be readily available
in - all through the Division of Trade Agreements.
there was also a memorandum dated February 18, 1938, signed
FBS, a memorandum which I dictated as a result of a conversation
between Secretary Hull and Mr. Hurban, the Czechoslovak
Minister, and I was present and dictated a memorandum of
the conversation. Again a trade matter, readily available.
to the Pumpkin Papers